Episode 18

full
Published on:

8th Jun 2023

How to Foster Psychological Safety at Work

In this episode, we are diving deep into a topic that really matters to us, and should matter to you too: psychological safety. 

This isn’t about hard hats and goggles, but the stuff that happens inside the head: the worry, the stress, the anxiety. A healthy work culture built on trust and honesty is crucial to creating an environment where people don’t just look their best, but feel it too. 

We help you understand exactly what psychological safety is, and how you and your employer can create a positive workplace that supports your mental wellbeing and helps you be the best version of you! 

 

Highlights: 

(00:05) What is psychological safety? 

(05:05) The circle of safety 

(10:17) Understanding and setting boundaries 

(11:59) Bring your whole self to work 

(17:48) Managers need to be vulnerable too 

(21:36) The biggest fear 

(25:47) How to measure trust 

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Transcript
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Welcome to the wellbeing, rebellion, the

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podcast that's changing workplace cultures for good.

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We're your hosts in Ghazi Wella,

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and obey telephoto.

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Let's get this rebellion started. Alright, so some thing

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that I never used to hear, but now I hear so often moving in

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the circles that we move in, is this phrase psychological

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safety? I swear it was made up like, a year or so ago. Yeah,

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but nobody said it. Now I'm on a panel. It's not even mental

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well, being experts that we're talking about it. It's just

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bosses and and tech experts, and physiotherapist, everyone seems

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to know what psychological safety is. And everyone seems to

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recognize it's something that is good to have in your office. But

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I'm still seeing evidence that not every workplace has created

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this psychological safety. So we thought it was a good idea to do

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a deep dive into how you can create psychological safety in

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your workplace. And the first thing that you've got to do when

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you do a deep dive into something, as any good student

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knows, is define it. So what is psychological safety, and so

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luckily, for me, my able comrade is a psychologist, so she can

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tell us exactly what psychological safety means

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referred

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to a psychologist to be able to define this one, but quite

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simply, the belief that you won't be punished or humiliated

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for you cannot put your ideas to asking questions, or having

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concerns or making mistakes, okay, so that the thing that

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means that look, safety can happen in a family, group of

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friends that, but we're talking about psychological safety at

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work, right. So, in particular, a BD shared belief, held by the

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members of that team, or that organization lied, that a team

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member will not be embarrassed, will not be rejected. And they

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will not be punished for being themselves or for speaking up.

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So it's a well established driver for high quality decision

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making healthy good dynamics, interpersonal relationship,

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greater innovation, all of that stuff that we believe in all the

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good stuff about what makes employee work engaged within an

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organization. However, this is not an easy thing to do. And the

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way and I agree, we didn't go did like all of them. Nobody's

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saying it. Like it's a another tick box, then yeah, you can't

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create cyclic say that takes time it takes effort. It's not

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actually a destination, you don't get to it is to journey

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just like trust, just like, in any relationship, it doesn't

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just is not just there is it gets to work constantly. So

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that's what I wanted to share. Today. Today, we're all clear. I

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don't think a lot of people know about that. It did. So do you

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have an organization? In a team where somebody is not walking

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around thinking? Now I can't I'm not gonna be able to say that

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because I get embarrassed from trying to say something. They

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may put me out like a troublemaker. Can you honestly

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say that every single person in your organization doesn't think

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that long impossible for people or people, right? So we're not

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trying to make sure this 100% Psychological safe circle that

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doesn't get broken, that would be the ideal that will be ideal.

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From now I replace the word psychological safety with that T

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word trust, because people can understand that they can

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understand that trust is easy to break, and hard to earn. They

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can understand that. What makes me trust you is different from

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what makes the other colleague trust you. They understand that

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you may have trust within one team, but not in every team. Or

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there may be trust between individuals in a team, but not

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the why is your team. Yeah. So So I think if you are struggling

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to really understand on a pragmatic level, why it's so

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hard to create psychological safety. Just think about it as

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trust. Yeah. And then that would make sense. Yeah.

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So the first thing I'm going to say could be questioned for

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this. We're discussing how to foster it. So how do you do it?

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Well, the first thing is the Cycler. crew safety always start

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from the top is the leadership that your employees on a team

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cannot create it without their money, they're helping them

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create the code, but they'll get overridden by manager one day.

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Right? So, like, I want to say that. And one of the key things

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that we're talking about was this reminded me of this book,

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Simon Sinek quick book called leaders, he laughed. And what

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I've loved about it, he'd version of psychological safety

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with something called circle of safety with a total like, Could

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I think people can see the circle and you know, when it's

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broken, and when it's not complete, right. So I might like

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that, I've a, at the very least, if psychological safety needs to

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have a an image, that I like the image of a circle, it will clear

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when it completely clear when it broken. And all of that stuff,

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and everybody involved in it, know that no one power over

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another in that, to that one of the key things that came up to

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me is the leadership. First is waiting.

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And I think in that circle of safety, we talk about culture,

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it is it is about the culture, whether that's a team culture,

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departmental organizational, and in fact, it's always all three.

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But it's that place where employees are working together,

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no matter which of those circles, you're talking about,

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where it's a team, togetherness, and people aren't one upping

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each other, or stabbing each other in the back trying to make

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you know, someone else jealous or happy, or whatever it has to

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be that like that trust circle of safety. Yeah, that way you

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really understand and believe in your core, that you will look

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after each other and protect each other from the dangers that

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are presented outside the circle. So whether that be other

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departments, other teams, even your clients, whoever that is

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that you within the circle of safety, share that level of

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trust, and support.

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Yeah. And that means that your leaders to be able to create

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that circle of trust, the leaders have to set the tone,

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the leader of that team have to set the tone, the leader of that

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department had to set the tone, the leader of that whole

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organization had to set the tone. So you see what I'm

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getting at here. That way, you have many circles of trust

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within an organization. And it's easy to be able to take one out

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when one is broken, so that you're not trying to string the

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whole organization ethos, or the whole organization, culture on

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something, you might be changed in one particular department who

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have struggled, or there's something going on for them. So

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that's what I wanted to say, in there. And then the company when

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we like, what one of the reason why I'd like to trust element of

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it, is because we get everybody understand what trust me we in

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intuitively get it. So trust isn't something some

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instructions, give out willy nilly kind of say trust me. Oh,

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yeah, sure. Like that. No, I don't know how that worked.

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Right. So you will need to show evidence that you are

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trustworthy, right? So when you say bring the whole self to

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work, what does that actually mean? Individual to a person who

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come from a previous organization, and you say, we

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encourage people to bring your hotel to work. Okay, except for

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these conditions. Why?

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Because there is always that subtext, the unwritten rules?

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About what exactly good that's what psychological safety is,

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it's an unwritten rule, we agree, that isn't how we're

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going to treat each other treat ourselves as being the host. So

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you have to define what is happening in my house or to work

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in my team? Are you telling me if I disagree with you, but the

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boss that I can change? I disagree with you and challenge

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your authority, obviously not being rude that lead to given,

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we have to assume the people in our team want to reply back? I'd

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have to assume that. And so if you assume that you're going to

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try to and didn't really agree with you, that that's okay. That

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you're not going to mark them down later when it comes to I

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don't know, promotion, day, right? Right, you're not going

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to do that you're not going to pit one staff or another staff

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for the day fight for ideas, you're not going to do that you

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could that what will happen is that protecting their

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creativity. And creativity doesn't really happen and they

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need other input, you need other insight for it to come up with

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everything. Good. That's what I wanted to say about that. So I

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cannot log an organization. What are you going to do about that

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you are the HR leader, and including you in this as well.

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You get to set the tone. You have off you have responsibility

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and your authority to influence your other senior leaders at

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work at OTF. All of them. Right.

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I think it's a big thing though. This question of what do we mean

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when we say bring bring your whole self to work? Because I

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hear as well is bandied a lot about a lot. I'm guilty of

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having said it in in explanation of what psychological safety

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means. And I know it's a almost twee expression but it's a it's

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really the very definition? But do we mean? Just come to work

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wearing whatever you like? Does your company actually support

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that? If my whole self is a whips and chains kind of girl,

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can I bring that to the workplace? And well, no, there's

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certain levels. So it's understanding, and I think,

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making explicit what those conditions are. And then it's

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saying to people, these are those unwritten rules? These are

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this is what we mean by your whole self. These are

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expectations, are you able to meet them? And do you feel

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comfortable working within those parameters? Do you still feel

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like you can be the best version of you within those parameters?

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So to me it when we talk about how do you do it, it's about

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making the implicit explicit, making sure you've got a degree

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of consensus, at least at a senior level as to what your

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culture as an organization should be, how it should look

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how it should feel from the inside and look to the outside

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here, the behaviors we consider acceptable. And then from that

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point, that it's defined, communicating that as frequently

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as you need to, so that everybody understands what is

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and isn't acceptable. And then making sure that behavior that

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is not acceptable, isn't tolerated, and behavior that is

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acceptable, gets rewarded, so that it becomes a natural state

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for employees. I think that's a simplistic way of looking at it.

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Yeah, I think an auto empathy and inclusivity are important

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part of this. Because you need to be able to empathize with

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your employees. And they are they're who different people,

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right we what motivates our, what affects us, what we did get

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our productivity, they were all different. And so we need to be

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able to see it person attack, which is why when we're talking

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about organizations, it's not a human being like that. It's an

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organization that the people who work the people who run them and

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not include you as well, I hate our leaders. So to be able to be

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able to decide what is acceptable behavior and what not

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acceptable behavior, when he said, bring your whole self to

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work, you need to ask the employee, I the team, you need

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to ask them, when I say bring yourself to what does that mean

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to you? Yeah, let them tell you what that means. So that way,

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when someone said to be my highest self worth means I'm

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going to bring all my, you know, sector gear to work. To say, Oh,

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hell no, that's not what we do. We want them to the you know,

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you don't get them this assumption, where people walk

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away with afraid and think they know what it means. But

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actually, you haven't given them parameter about what it means.

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So I would say it just got after what brings a whole shelf to

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with me, and it could be anonymous, wow, you can send a

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whole little thing and instead just send them all the things to

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ah, but what it means that way, you can say they can see things

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like how my hair is it okay, that's my Asfa going out of my

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head is my normal stuff. And I wouldn't be able to bring that

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to work. And you know, yes, doctor to talk later. No, that's

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not what we're talking about there. So all the things that

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people think are myself that I've been prevented from

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bringing to work, they need to be able to share it so that you

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can go, oh, my god, yeah, that is totally acceptable to be

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bitter, to say that you have a son and you want to be able to

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drop in my football practice or stay at football? Why are you

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doing that at five o'clock, and that means you need to live

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slightly earlier to watch him play, that is totally acceptable

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to ask for. That is bringing your whole self to work that you

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don't want to add to that. And I think that organizations who are

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good at who going to spend a lot of effort trying to create the

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psychological safety will always reap the benefit must make more

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than those who are pretending they're trying. Because at the

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end of the day, those leaders who will do it will be more

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courageous, they have to be more courageous. They're not afraid

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of making mistakes, because they're going to learn why

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they're less self seven, why they're going to put people

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first for real, they really mean that when they say so. So that's

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what I wanted to add to that point then.

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But it's that courage like you say, it doesn't come without

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risk. Because in order to, to generate that, say within a team

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because that's easier for us to conceptualize, if you're the

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leader of a team. How do you get your employees to trust you?

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Well, the way that I always say is be vulnerable yourself. So

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whenever I'm delivering workshops or training And I will

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always start with my own story of mental ill health. And I will

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be as graphic as I can bear about what it meant to me. Not

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clinical, but anecdotal, so that people can see me being

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vulnerable, because how on God's earth can I say to you, it's

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okay to trust me with your problems, if I'm not prepared to

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trust you with mine. So that but that takes courage. And people

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are often coming up to me saying, Thank you so much for

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sharing that was so brave. But I have to be in order to, to

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generate that kind of empathy from you guys. So that, you

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know, you're safe to open up with me. It also means admitting

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when you've made mistakes, and, and being honest about it, and

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apologizing for it and trying your best not to commit them

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again. So and that can, that's very difficult for those of us

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in certain leader mind mindsets, who think that a leader is the

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one who is more like a king infallible, like leaders or like

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Pope's, they are without sin. And it's not. It's not the way

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that most people respond, actually. Because that makes you

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less approachable. Yeah, it makes me trust you less, because

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I don't know you. I can't trust what I don't know. So yeah,

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that's something I think that leaders will have to address,

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how comfortable am I sharing myself? How psychologically safe

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do I feel within the team,

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and pido feel psychologically safe to share with your team,

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then they don't have either good tech.

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But But leaders have asked me particularly when it comes to

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One to One coaching or the leadership training, I can't, I

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haven't shared this stuff with my team. And there are times

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when it is not appropriate, it is not appropriate for the CEO

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of a company to necessarily stand up and say, I'm going

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through this particular crisis. Because the fact is, the stock

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markets will reflect that. But there are things that you can

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say, like I did go through that crisis, or I'm supporting people

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who are having issues or whatever it is, you want to say,

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if you are leading a team, you might not want to tell them the

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ins and outs of your mental health challenges or your

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personal problems or anything like that, but show that you are

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human and relatable. And here's the other thing, you have to

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find the people that you can open up to. So people at your

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level or above, you have to find them and be vulnerable with

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them. And so that you feel that level of safety. Okay,

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somebody's got my back. Now I can go and be someone else's

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rock.

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Yeah, I think ultimately, the thing I'm going to add, because

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I get this question a lot too, from HR leaders, where we'd like

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to encourage the teams or managers to be open and

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vulnerable, in that opening them up for issues, tribunal issues

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and any of that kind of stuff. If you're going to be

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uncomfortable, frankly, managers need to be they need to be

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trained in what they're going to share, like to say contrary to

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everything, but what they how you can share. And what you're

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sharing is something that they can also learn. So if I'm just

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saying if you're going to offer training or create training for

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managers include that how to be vulnerable is then you don't, we

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don't we're not all don't all do it naturally. But there's a way

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in which you can share so you can talk about podcasting,

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you've come back back out cough for money that you can talk

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about the fact that actually when I had this happen to me,

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I'm not going to tell you the details, I'm going to make the

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can say that I'm not going to tell you the details, but I did

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we need counseling for it. And I got counseling from this VIP

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thing. And I got a session like to fill back. And so it could

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literally be as simple as that. But indicating I have a problem

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that was similar to yours, or even not similar to yours. It

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created this emotion in me with within Jaya T which was stressed

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whatever it anybody can relate to that part that I went ahead

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and did something for myself to resolve it, which is an EAP,

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therapy, medication, whatever it is, so that I can now start

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showing up to myself at work so that I can now support you guys

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at work. That is enough information for that person to

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go like if he Chevron, he feels safe internet. Therefore, I owe

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to and it's an invitation that I also could share in the struggle

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of truck with manager. Good luck. What I wanted to add to

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that. I like that word invitation invitation. Yeah. The

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other thing is, when you create a circle of safety, I'm just

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using Simon's expression when you have psychological safety in

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your organization It means that everybody who works there feels

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comfortable learning and growing. And when you learn and

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grow, if you cast your mind back to when you were younger, or to

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those of you who parent young children or, or have access to

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young children, you'll know one thing about learn learning is

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that mistakes are inevitable. How your organization handles

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mistakes, is critical to ensure that you don't break that trust.

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If you have a punishment and blame culture, then people will

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be afraid to try. So you have to make sure that you have a

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culture that yes, encourages learning, because it views

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mistakes and failure as part of the learning journey. And that

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there is not there's no fear of retribution or punishment,

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because you've done something like that. Now, that's not to

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say that someone who flagrantly goes against company policies

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and puts themselves or others in harm's way. Shouldn't face

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reprimand, I'm talking about the kind of mistakes that are

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routinely experienced in the workplace, not getting the

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report done. Right. Not delivering as you would have

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liked to on the presentation, not not something more heinous.

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And that

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actually, is that it just brings me to the previous organizations

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I worked for. So you know, we dealt with, we work with, you

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know, social justice. So people who got mental health issues,

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addiction, homelessness, all kinds of social justice issues.

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And our biggest fear working in our team would always who's

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going to die next, right? And who would watch it is going to

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be on because we're, we're not very well. And by using drugs or

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whatever, we don't need some tasty the matter of time, right?

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So there was this idea where we would go to clinical meetings,

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and you're supposed to bring in patients that you were concerned

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about, right? And then what we noticed, because it took a

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while, but after a while, you start to have this, so many

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patients with you, when you can't control how many people do

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get in, you know, funding and all that issue. So all of a

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sudden, we know to have clinical meetings, and I had a manager

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who, you know, you showed me 10? Until okay, what the issue is,

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you know, who got the case? Did they want discussion? And nobody

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raised their hand. Like so. No one on your book, you're worried

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about concerned about thinking to do that risky that they might

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No, no? less scary? Oh, my goodness. It was there was some

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there wouldn't be any money. There were a few managers

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managing our team. So all our five team will be together. And

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then we will like what what massive thing to who's going to

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be the one going to raise your hand say by God his patients?

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What will happen? Will be like Citizen, how will GOD OH, GOD

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patient? They are you know, they've been risky. They've been

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through more alcohol or even more drugs. So basically, then

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someone will go, have they kind of figured, what am I going to

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do? Go and do a home visit? Okay, have you given them a

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little Naloxone pen? Okay, well, I'm found them to give, who

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already lived to par, Dr. pylon. When you start to look like, Oh,

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I see. You're not even trying to you haven't gone out of your way

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to go and find these people and wherever they've been hiding?

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And then so when you think people did it, it meant like,

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okay, every time I mentioned, I've got I'm concerned about it

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with the client or patient. I get more work to do. I get more

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shamed basically about oh, well, old stuff that you're not doing.

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stuff you're not doing. So what people started doing, were just

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not saying anything. And the funny thing is, it was us money.

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They couldn't exactly go. We were happy to go. Yeah. All

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right, then. Because also it means we're also it take no

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responsibility, and I don't have to deal with that. Right. Then

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we realized how unsafe it was. People die when you're hiding

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things. So what did we have to do as a team and even as an

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organization, that we have to assume it's our collective

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responsibility? If a staff said I couldn't find this patient

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look after I didn't I did everything I could I try to that

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I don't have enough energy or time to manage that. That it

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would our problem and not that particular practice enough

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problem. It would average who can help who got less than the

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book that can take that's a team that was a while and I can't

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remember whether or not an incident that happened in

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between a voc not talking to you would have happened somewhere

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else, maybe not next day. But what organisational we had to

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discuss the fear that people felt that they will be blamed.

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If a patient died, or they hadn't done enough, nobody wants

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to go to tribunal, you know, any of this kind of conversation, or

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the other issue, but he wants to do that. So that would one

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thing, just want to mention it. But a lot of the organization

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that you're working with, it's not life or death situation. So

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it's easier to be able to say our responsibility, right? And

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you're not going to be called to Coroner's Court, that blog

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member, Coroner's Court, not five, you know, many of the

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organizations out there that we see you're not going to be

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dealing with people whose lives, okay. So if you're not dealing

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with those, you should be able to say that it's our collective

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responsibility. If one failed all of us do, because we're

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going to learn from that. That's what I wanted to share. You can

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knock it down for what needy, but we got there in the end.

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I love the quote from Peter Drucker, if you don't measure

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it, you can't improve it, because it leads us to the

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fourth tip about how you can improve psychological safety

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within your team. Now, how do you measure trust? How do you

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quantify it? Well, you can, you can review progress. For

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example, you can use surveys, everybody knows how to use pulse

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surveys, you can ask your staff to respond to a series of

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statements like if I make a mistake in a mistake in this

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team, it is held against me write it using the Likert, scale

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zero to whatever you can have any kind of I feel comfortable

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coming into work, dressed as I wish to dress, I feel like I can

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confidently talk to my manager about a number of different

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issues, unrelated to work, those kinds of things. And if you have

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those kinds of survey responses, you'll be able to see how

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different teams operate different departments, different

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demographics, within your employee workforce. And the

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responses can help build the foundation for discussion about

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the whole work environment, which can be the basis of

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reviewing how you manage your team, how you manage your

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department, how you manage your organization.

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Yeah. And I think that athletes are based in the back of it.

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Very specific questions. So the example I gave you about that

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clinical team, for example, I would have been asking things

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like, I feel comfortable bringing clinical cases to

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clinical supervision very specific, because it's not like

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they were in sharing those words, or sharing it outside of

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that clinical meeting. By finding the manager directly and

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in a one on one with me, I'm comfortable sharing it one on

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one, but not in a group setting, because I don't feel safe in

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that setting. So it'd be if you can be as specific as possible.

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So when you say if I make a mistake in this team, it might

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be the mistake that you hold to value most like sale, for

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example, a lot of sales, a lot of a client do that

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specifically, to be able to gauge exactly what level of

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security a person feel within the team when they make an

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error. They wanted to be more specific about that.

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And another way you can help to foster psychological safety is

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to not assume everybody knows what it is or how to generate it

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and provide education. So HR and learning and development

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leaders, they they have to ensure their organizations are

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offering sustainable and transformational training

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programs on topics like inclusive leadership,

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communication skills, conflict resolution, and empathy so that

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your managers and your leaders can help to cultivate this trust

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within their teams. Don't assume that everybody knows how to do

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it as well as you do, because I guarantee they don't. Yeah, so

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that's it. Those are your five tips. So what are the what are

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the five tips? Can you recite them with us one, start at the

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top. So make sure that your leaders are setting the tone, to

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create the kind of trust that is required for your employees to

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feel comfortable being themselves in your workplace.

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And don't forget to define what the parameters for that are.

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So talking point being vulnerable, so you as a leader,

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have responsibility to be vulnerable to your with your

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employees or your team, to the day feel invited to also feel

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vulnerable to share that out that I'll help to create a

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lovely psychological safe space within that circle.

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Make sure you front up when you make mistakes. Don't try and

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sweep it under the carpet or cover it with some blanket BS

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statement so that it doesn't put the blame on you. Be honest Post

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about your mistakes and see your mistakes their mistakes as part

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of the learning journey, an inevitable consequence of the

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desire for creativity and innovation.

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And for mentor your psychological safety. How safe

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is it, review it you surveys off specific question statement that

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is very unique to your team or your organization, however you

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want to do it, to be able to be student with clear what you

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actually have in your organization.

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And finally, empower your leaders, your managers to be

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able to create these cultures and cultivate them within their

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teams, through training and education. Make sure that they

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know exactly what creating psychological safety entails,

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how quickly and easily can be broken, and what to do to repair

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it. If it is. That's it.

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That's it. I mean, if I'm gonna put it out there, if you're an

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organization out there thinking, I only know how to build this

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into our organization, I wouldn't know where to start,

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then feel free to connect with us after question. We're on

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LinkedIn and have a meeting. But how you might do it every

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organization is different. That is unique to you can't quite

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copy and paste. So try and think about what will be unique for

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your organization. And we're happy to happy to welcome and

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help you. Definitely

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not for free though. Yeah, so we'll see you next time. Thanks,

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guys. Bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of The wellbeing

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rebellion.

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If you liked what you just heard, please share it with your

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colleagues. Follow us on LinkedIn. The link could be in a

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turnout and genuinely show us some love.

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We want to build a whole army of fellow rebels who want to create

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positive workplaces for everyone. Will you join the

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About the Podcast

The Wellbeing Rebellion
Welcome to The Wellbeing Rebellion, an award-winning podcast! We are Ngozi Weller, a corporate wellbeing and productivity consultant, and Obehi Alofoje, a psychologist and behavioural change specialist.

We are the founders of Aurora, a corporate culture consultancy that specialises in creating psychologically safe workplaces that enable employees to thrive, and for us, wellbeing is personal.

The problem with employee wellbeing support, in most workplaces, is that it puts the responsibility on the person struggling to seek help. And when you are unwell, that is just too big a burden to bear.

It's not enough to say that your door is always open.

We need to get better at supporting our employees, and that is precisely what this podcast is about.

The rebellion is here, and it is long overdue. So this podcast is specifically for the HR or business leader who wants to make a difference to their employees. And the bottom line is we want to create psychologically safe workplaces where employees are empowered to bring their whole selves to work. We want to create a culture that is inclusive, supportive, and encourages everyone from the shop floor to the boardroom to play their part.

On the wellbeing rebellion podcast, we'll give you weekly up-to-date insights, strategies and tips that cover leadership capability, executive burnout, mental health, equity, diversity and inclusion and employee challenges such as retention, productivity and emotional resilience. Sometimes, it'll be just us. Other times we'll interview industry leaders and experts.

Don't hesitate - listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts, because The Wellbeing Rebellion starts now!

About your hosts

Obehi Alofoje

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Obehi is a psychologist and culture change consultant who helps senior HR and business leaders reduce employee burnout, absenteeism & talent attrition through mental wellbeing strategy, training & coaching.

Ngozi Weller

Profile picture for Ngozi Weller
Ngozi Weller is a culture change consultant and an ICF accredited coach who helps build resilience into your business by creating psychologically safe workplaces that enable employees to thrive.